Club Arnage

I forsee LOTS of them :)

Yay - I have Holland in the office sweepstake, so am in the prize money now!

F

Congratulations Holland!!  Let's             go               all            the               way!

ditto

well done you Dutchies

 ;)

Stuck in France with the TV not working in my room, I take it the Dutch have won another game... into the final?

I do not know.

>Martini...LB   

Yep I think so.   I'll drink to it anyway.  ;D ;D

t.

Celebration time, I think I will pour a vodka night cap... Hup Holland...

>Martini...LB

Strongbow and Guinnes hangover, but still showed up for work today!

Had to watch the game in an Irish pub last night, good game, bad for my heart though, great result.

Bring on ze germans ;D

I've seen one or two dutch guys with hangovers in Le Mans (I know thats hard to believe  ;) ) , but now I'm trying to imagine a WHOLE country with a hangover!

All those wobbly bikes.

Well done guys, great game.

same as me plus i bet on them last night so made near £100 :D

Shhh - or we will have to buy the beers at the next NW meet!

Congrats Holland - I'm happy you did it! Its worth a hangover ;D
Now I hope that we will be able to join you on Sunday.
I'm already planning a nasty visit to a spanish restaurant tonight >:D

Cheers

Werner

if it gets organized soon, Ive already spent it since last night now  ::)

Good luck tonight Werner.

Just remember at the spanish restaurant - Gazpacho soup  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=511VL3VEvQM

so looking forward to sunday :)

have a good one Werner, it is a tough game up until now...

Werner, it's dish number one for you. Whatever that is.   ;D

Great game by the Spanish team.  :o I was a bit surprised.

Be preparred, the orange guys... that's going to be tough.


grummel, grummel, oh f**k, we're done... :P

Sorry Werner, was cheering for Germany, looked like they had taken advise from the English team  :(

On the +plus side, at least we know who to cheer for.

But which dutch beer do we have to drink for the event?

Grolsch :)

Well, I cancelled my visit to a spanish restaurant tonite -  :(
But at least there's nothing to discuss - Spain was clearly better today.
I wish the Dutch good luck on sunday - no need to say for whom i'll cheer for in the final!

Hup Holland!

For all my german friends  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XgmI-FS_4I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XgmI-FS_4I)

LOL

Hup Holland indeed.

Here's hoping the spanish don't go past the dutchie on the left hand side ;D ;D

Good one, LOL  ;D

Hup Holland, hup !!!

Good luck on Sunday.

Worst hangover ever, not from drinking by the way!

ziz game was not fun to watch :(

A bit too much Kung-Fu for my liking.

Im hacked off with the press about this.

This is not a mickey mouse club game, it's not a champions league qualifier, or even a champions league final - this was the World Cup Final.  THE biggest prize in world sport, bar none. 

The way the dutch approached the game was with a determination to win, and a plan of doing WHATEVER it took to win the game.  They played, completely on the edge - on the edge of decency, on the edge of cheek, and on the borderline between agression and dangerous play.  However, they did NOT cheat, they may have approached the game negatively, but IT'S THE WORLD CUP FINAL, the worst thing in the world would be to give the game away by being caught out pushing up field. 

Maradonna is praised and admired by every football fan that isn't english as being not just a genius, but for doing whatever it takes to win.  He won.  Ayrton Senna, Similar - He won 3 times.  Michael Schumacher - Also did whatever it took to win - he goes down in history as the greatest driver of all time.  If Holland had snuck a goal last night, they would not have gone down in history as the team that kicked their way to the world cup, they would have simply gone down as the World Champions.  Holland were doing what they thought would lead them to the trophy - Full on commitment, no fear, and complete determination.  It wasn't pretty to watch - but for the media to condemn them in such a way is bang out of order in my opinion.  Would they have done the same to England?? 

More to the point - the main criticism came from Alan Hansen.  Forgive my memory, but when WAS the last time that anyone scottish knew anything about winning a world cup exactly??

Unlucky Holland - you put up a good fight......

Brad,

Your getting worse.  Scotland have never won the World cup even I know that and I'm not in to football. 

t.

PS.  I'll get my hat now.   

Hi Brad,

I understand your argumentation very well - I think in the end it comes down to which values someone rates higher: competitive spirit and fair play versus the "success at any price" attitude. Many people will call me old-fashioned because of this but I'm not a fan of the "whatever it takes to win"-attitude.

That's also why I never admired Schuhmache and Senna, both without questions world class drivers - but with a very questionable attitude. Pushing other drivers off the track on purpose (I think Senna was really excellent in this too) or parking a car on the track in Monaco to keep the competitors from getting a better qualifying time than me is not acceptable for me - I personally find it just disgusting. And for me this applies to the excessive use of foul play as a tactic to win in football too. Of course the borderline between "still acceptable" and "too much" is not always easy to define but for my personal taste it was crossed on sunday.

I would have loved to see the Dutch winning the final - my sympathy was clearly with them - but what I saw was not amusing.

No offence, Brad, and my friends from DfH, just my 2 pennies

Cheers

Werner

My needle with the press is that actually, Holland have played some great football to get to the final - presented with the pressure pot, I would expect any team to change their style of play to find a way to beat (what has turned out to be) the best team in the world right now. 

In an all or nothing scenario, I think it's the ruthless who usually prevail, with the odd "beauty against ruthless victory" scenario.  Given that Holland were on the brink of their first world cup win, I believe they used tactics which they thought would allow them to prevail.

Afterall, the engraving on the trophy would simply read "Nederland", not "Nederland kicking Spain".  In the same way as the F1 records say "Michael Schumacher - 7 X World Champion", not "7 X World Champion, but in 94 he should have been disqualified"......

Play the beautiful game all the way to the final - in my opinion, the only thing that then matters, is winning. 

 

 ::) ::) ::)

TAXIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!

Looks like the worst thing was actually to play like a bunch of ill-disciplined thugs, bring themselves, and the game into disrepute, and still lose the game.

At least if they had been caught out pushing up field their honour and dignity would have remained intact.

Just like England ;)

Being Dutch, I did not like what I saw either. However, foul play was used by both teams, remember iniesta's attack on van Bommel. Our guys were just nervous as hell and made some bad decisions. Spain was clearly the better side, but in football, the better side doesn't always win. I don't think it was a disgrace for football, but just a match with a lot to loose or win.

Englands press just need something to complain about (with their team getting their arses kicked by ze germans), I just don't understand why they did not start with the referee who was clearly not up for the task! I am not saying his is a bad ref, he just did not have things under control during the match.

Anyway, congrats to Spain who were the best team at the world championship this year, better luck in four years I say!

Given the appallingly violent conduct of many of the Dutch players I think the referee did an incredible job of keeping the game under control.  I don't think there are many other modern referees - maybe Collina is one - who could have kept that match from boiling-over and becoming a complete free for all.

The Dutch were incredibly lucky not to be down to nine players before half-time... and that is thanks to the referee.

Please don't suck up the press view.

Appalling violence??  Did someone get shot?  Did anyone get hurt??

That's not appalling violence - that's full blooded passion and desire to get there first.  The high kick was misjudged - he had his eye on the ball there was no malice. A couple of tackles over the top of the ball - again, misjudged, it's not as if the player was aiming for the opposition - he just wanted the ball as quickly as possible.

Honestly - back in the day, players used to smack the Sh1t out of each other, and they were classed as great players - they were never punished - now if you tap one of these mamby pamby premier league stars, they fall over like they've been shot! 

The stakes were high in this game - to be fair - if it was England, I'd want to see them going in hard for tackles, getting them wrong every now and again - football is a game where sheer determination, guts and grit should be able to overcome show boating, trick plays and fannying about with the ball.......

On the subject of the referee - Howard Webb had the opportunity to make the game all about him - both sides should have lost at least 2 players - but in that scenario, you ruin the spectacle by sending players off.  I thought he made some sound, common sense decisions, but could have let the game flow a lot more easily.

Bearing in mind I watched the match in Holland together with Dutch people, and that I virtually never agree with a word Oldtimer writes,  ;) I though the Dutch players conduct was really quite deplorable in general. Not what was expected, and certainly not tin the best traditions of Dutch football. I thought it was utterly an utterly brainless approach to the game.

It would seem a certain J Cruyff agrees too.

Dutch football legend Johan Cruyff has launched a scathing attack on Netherlands' display in the World Cup final, deriding it as "anti-football".

The Dutch received nine yellow cards, and a red card for Johnny Heitinga, as they lost 1-0 to Spain in South Africa.

"Sadly, they played very dirty," Cruyff told Spanish newspaper El Periodico.

"This ugly, vulgar, hard, hermetic, hardly eye-catching, hardly football style... If with this they got satisfaction, fine, but they lost."

Cruyff was the symbol of 'Total Football', which earned the Dutch successive World Cup final appearances in 1974 and 1978.

Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk appeared to opt for pragmatism over style as he led the Oranje to a third final in South Africa, but the result was the same, as Andres Iniesta scored an extra-time winner for Spain. But Sunday's game was also notable for Netherlands' surprisingly aggressive approach.

Cruyff, along with many others, believed Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong were lucky not to be sent off before half-time, Van Bommel for a tackle from behind on Iniesta and De Jong for kicking Xabi Alonso in the chest.

"They should have been down to nine immediately, then they made two [such] ugly and hard tackles that even I felt the damage," said the 63-year-old Cruyff.

"It hurts me that Holland chose an ugly path to aim for the title."

Cruyff brought his footballing philosophy to Barcelona in an eight-year spell as manager, and he is widely credited with the one-touch passing style still employed by the Catalan club, who provided the backbone of Spain's World Cup-winning squad.

However, in the Champions League semi-final last season, Pep Guardiola's side were upset by a defence-minded Inter Milan, coached by Jose Mourinho - a fact not lost on Cruyff.

"On Thursday they asked me from Holland 'Can we play like Inter? Can we stop Spain in the same way Mourinho eliminated Barca?'

"I said no, no way at all. I said no, not because I hate this style, I said no because I thought that my country wouldn't dare to and would never renounce their style. I said no because, without having great players like those of the past, the team has its own style.

"I was wrong. Of course I'm not hanging all 11 of them by the same rope, but almost. They didn't want the ball."

Cruyff also joined in the criticism of English referee Howard Webb, accusing him of being too soft with the players.

"A World Cup final deserves great refereeing and, above all, deserves a referee who dares to do everything it means to be a judge," he said.

Who listens to J Cruyff, he always knows better, but never ever has he taken on the challenge of becoming our national coach, cause he is scared of loosing face, that's why he always shouts from the sidelines and never takes charge.

as for oldtimer, see it as you like, the ref made a show for himself on the field, he was not important at all in this game, but choose to make himself the center of attention. Surely the guy that did not see the England goal against Germany would have done a better job then webb.

Okay if you don't respect Mr Cruyff's views on football (of course I do on account of him being better at it than me) but how about the views of a few more neutral pundits...

Alan Hansen (Scotsman): "If the Dutch had have triumphed, it would have been bad for the game because there is no place for the way they approached the match. It's one thing to have a game plan, be organised and get men behind the ball, but the cynical way in which they operated for the first 45 minutes was a total and utter disgrace."

Mike Inham, BBC Chief Soccer correspondent (Englishman): "The good news is that Spain are the champions and worthy champions, but the bad news is the biggest match in the world was soiled and stained and betrayed by the Netherlands. I know part of football is to stop your opponent, but you must do it legitimately and I don't really see the point of getting to the final if you're going to disrespect it like the Dutch did so crudely. It was a bit like watching a child trying to build a sandcastle and another child then knocking it down. I think Fifa has a problem because they trumpet this ideal of "my game is fair play" but if you think about this World Cup we had France qualifying through cheating, Uruguay denying Africa's best team [Ghana] through cheating and the Dutch last night with their own slogan - my game is unfair play."

Chris Waddle, a nice guy too! (Englishman): "You associate beautiful football with the Netherlands and that was the first time I have ever seen them play like that. I don't think too many people will be impressed with the Netherlands. Webb can't win - if he had sent three players off everyone would have criticised him. He refereed a game where players just wanted to foul. It might not have been the best final but Spain have been the best side for the last three years and they always tried to play the game in the right way."

Now try to find a neutral (non-Dutch!) pundit or journalist who thinks NL deserved to win... Hard going, and I take absolutely no pleasure at all in saying Spain deserved the Cup.  :(

What complete and utter bullsh1t.  Had the players - and in particular the Dutch - played in the manner befitting the most important and most watched match in the sport the referee would not have needed to play such a central role.

Howard Webb is, however, one of the most card happy, pinnikity refs in English football .... we've had him ref a few massive games at Reading, and he does tend to favour the big clubs....

Really...  ;)

What I can't understand amidst all the criticism of Webb is precisely which one of the yellow offences didn't warrant a card? Maybe Dutch booking numer three (or was it four?) was a tadge harsh but what do you expect if you go in two footed with the studs up? Other than that I couldn't really fault him, except for not immediately sending off de Jong's idiotic kung-fu kick in the chest to Xabi Alonso which broke his rib. That was a straight red, in my book, and it's arguable that the numbskull van Bommel should have been yellow carded in just about every match he played in the tournament. He was very lucky to stay on the pitch on Sunday.

Massive to proper football fans....

All valid comment, like I said, I did not like what I saw from the Dutch side either. That said, I think they could have shown a bit more respect to the spanish players by stopping them with football and not attacks to the legs or chest for that matter.

All I can say is that they were very nervous and maybe that's the reason for them behaving the way they did. I think we did better in the second half and the fouls were not to bad in my book.

Webb lost control of the game in my opinion by blowing his whistle to much in the second half, killing the game. And his biggest mistake was not giving us a corner kick in the last minutes of the game. I think Fifa really needs to rethink their quality of refs, the semi was led by a ref from f**king azerbijan, or some goat f**king country for god sakes, they play football on farmland between goats and cows!!!!! How on earth do they get to ref in a world cup, f**king corruption by Blatter and his possy is really pissing me off.

Spare a thought Knetter....

England had a perfectly valid goal disallowed, which would have completely changed the face of our game with Germany (I'm not saying we would have won, but we would have put up a much better fight!!) because, despite the fact that over 1 billion people worldwide, saw the ball cross the line, the one person who didn't, happened to be the referee.

Personally I thought Webb could have let the game flow alot better, but I don't think he lost control.

And also - It's called the world cup for a reason - that reason being that the whole world can enter - officials, and national teams.  If we start limiting where the referees come from, we end up being no better than the Americans, and their "World Series" of baseball....that only American teams can enter..... ???

I am just saying that some countries who do not even have a solid competition in their country should not be allowed to have refs at the tournament, that's all.

Toronto has a team.  ;D

(Point taken, though).

Toronto also has a fantastic branch of Hooters! :)


Agreed Knetter, about the refs from Honduras and Burkino Faso, they should use the best in the world. Sure the smaller nation's refs should be encouraged and coached via regional compotitions etc but the World Cup is not the place to do it.

I never saw the game, not really interested, so don't know what all the fuss is about. But this is a rant of the very first order. Well done Roy.

I normally don't go into rant's, but Blatter is really the biggest disgrace to football, he really needs to step down! Even the meeting about video aid has been postponed, pretty sure it will be cancelled in the near future. He is giving all of his friends presents and favours, just so they will re-elect him next year. He is the poison dwarf of football!

I've been there.  It was freezing!  The guys I was with loved it.   >:D

Dx

Why did they bother going to Hooters when they could get a bargain bucket in KFC and have you lob them out for the boys whilst they eat?  :)

They don't serve alcohol in KFC. 

Dx