Club Arnage

is this Mustang Sally ;)

yeee how

if not, she should be!

...you'd have to ask Mark?!

No doubt JPC, that well known crooner of the song will comment in due course, but for this Mark, it ticks the right boxes.  It is a North American Aviation P-51 Mustang, and the young lady is probably called Sally  ;D 

Although you could argue that it is the wrong P-51D, as the real P-51D "Mustang Sally" is flying out of California http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry/p51-4474494.html (http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p51registry/p51-4474494.html), at which point the name of the young lady ceases to be relevant........

MG Mark 

Oh wow - thanks.

Just noticed that plane  ::)

are you really, really sure it is NA?

Most certainly not North American as the aircraft is marked, but my reference to NAA was as the original manufacturer.

MG Mark

Maybe a CAC manufactured kite?  Interesting working on the 'Merlin' fitted in mustangs, there are quite noticable external differences between American and British produced engines.

And that one is, to be accurate a North American Aviation P51, built under license by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation in Australia as a CA-18 Mk21, construction number 1429.  Now living in Point Cook down under but on the ground at the moment for repairs http://www.mustangjoyflights.com.au/ (http://www.mustangjoyflights.com.au/)  :)

MG Mark  

yep,one of my oz relies lives not far from Point Cook, believe or not he is in the Guinness Book of Records for the number of 'Dust Offs'.

Lucky chap - hopefully as the pilot rather than the patient?

you bet, or he would have had lots of holes.  Still going strong and giving them hell, only recently caught for driving with a bit too much ale after a RAAF bash.

Good for him, and long may he continue to do so (go strong and give them hell that is)  ;)

Sadly, we'll need to change his nickname from Snow to Just Bald.

hey everybody

did anyone notice there was a "bird" on the picture with the Aussie Mustang

TBH I noticed more about her first then the slightly larger than usual fin fillet on the 51

Were Aussie Mustangs designated P51K? I seem to remember that from the distant past...

Great picture Peter and very instructive. Obviously airfield safety equipment is coming along by leaps and bounds.

Aircooled summer trouserings, excellent.

I'll look for that next time I visit an airfield, cool or what?


 ;D

Bill, I don't think it is an Emu in front of the kite, maybe Whippy the Bush Kangaroo ;)

Sod all this hairy plane chat.

Mustang Steve -

(http://movie-poster.ws/movies/actors/images/Bullitt_mustang.JPG)

...ahhh, back to cars.  Now I can follow the conversation!

wot, you mean like this.....http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pics/mustangsx2/home.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51pics/mustangsx2/home.php), scroll down the page for different variants...

;D ;D ;D

MG Mark

ONE SONG....HE'S ONLY GOT ONE SONG!

I'm all confused now......do you mean the song of a 1649ci, single stage, two-speed supercharged V12, or a 427ci big block, normally aspirated V8, or JPC's traditional rendition of the thread title.....

MG Mark  

so you say, but which one...

I could hang around all day listening to each or any one of 'em

music



for preference though I'll take mine 1940s vintage

damned good link Mark

I'll take the P51B please

I know the P51 is considered the better aircraft but give me a MK9 Spit anyday  ;D

Oh yes?

I didn't see that on the list of options

I base my opinions on my dad's assertions, he was posted temporarily to the Poles when they had P51As. He was an "Armaments Technician" assigned to teach their armourers the intimate intricacies of the interrupter gear. Seems  the Air Ministry thought it a good idea to stop their cheery pilots shooting the props off their Allisons in fits of boyish enthusiasm.

He always swore that ditching the Allison and the associated nose mounted guns in favour of the Merlin made the Mustang a fine aeroplane, as noted since by hundreds of people

Yes the Spit MkIX was wonderful, but on balance, being able to dogfight halfway across Germany even to Berlin, gives the 'Stang a little edge I suppose, even though the Spit remains my fave beastie.

My dad had been an Armourer at Hawkinge in 1940 and served as such in various Fighter and Bomber units 'til late in the war when he became an Airgunner in Coastal Command.

Sorta gave me a boyish respect for his opinions...

Watched 'TheTuskegee Airmen' over the Xmas holidays.
Not only fighting the Third Reich, but redneck attitudes as well.
Respect.

Favourite single engine piston fighter for me has to be http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Hawker-Tempest-Mk2/1109843/L/&tbl=&photo_nr=18&sok=&sort=&prev_id=1109844&next_id=1109842 (http://www.airliners.net/photo/UK---Air/Hawker-Tempest-Mk2/1109843/L/&tbl=&photo_nr=18&sok=&sort=&prev_id=1109844&next_id=1109842)  ;D

MG Mark

George Lucas has been working on a film based on the Tuskegee Airman and the film under the title Red Tails is due out this year.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485985/

and my fave Spitfire
http://www.deroeck.co.uk/planes/Spitfire-Mk-XIV-JEJ.html

Well I dunno Gary

It's all right, but for me the Spit should be Merlin engined

I'm with Bentleyboy on that.  I'll take the Mk 9 please, espcially in Johnny Johnson's iconic JEJ markings as made years ago by Airfix.

You're right Bill, a Merlin powered spit does sound better than Griffon power, BUT something with SIX Merlins is better still!

Whats got six merlins - a Lancasterandahalf?

I suppose BBMF with the Lanc, Hurricane and the right Spitfire, although FS implies a singleton???

MG Mark

ha ha, BBMF is something, aint it ;D

the odd thing is the only BBMF aircraft that have been in continous RAF 'ownership' are...........and not .......fill in the gaps.  No peaking on the internet.

Grounded and not flying :)

no dope, flying...

Hard one Peter

have a guess then...

Hurri and the PR Spit?

I think the Hurri has the metal wings that used to be on my favourite Hurricane from Birmingham Science Museum.
 

No, miles out, I'll give you a clue, they are tail draggers...that'll narrow it down a bit

Not a couple of Chippys are they?

I heard they had one or two for familiarisation...

well done, treat yourself to a cold shower if you can say you didn't peak, strangley all the other aircraft in the flight, Lanc, Dak, Hurri's and Spit's have all had to be reacquired back into the light blue.

No Peter

No peeking

just a tad of aerogeekiness

and a vague set of memories

Personally 2 is better than 4 or 6! a Mossie  :o either the New Zealand Mossie has to fly here when it's finished or I'll have to fly there  ;D

Another teaser question - what had 2 Roll Royce 'R' engines?

land, sea or air applications?

You want clues already!

Thunderbolt

George Eyston's late 30's LS record breaker

Well, done Rup.  That's the land bit done.

2 more applications to go.

of course not, just want to see if you know what you are talking about or is it just the usual bollocks ;D

Well you haven't been very pro-active with providing an answer yet - usual bluster and BS.

here I can only cheat

I have flown in many Chipmunks

I have never flown in any other aircraft in the BBMF, not even the doughty old Dakota, although Gwyn, the guv'ner flew in daks to france as a schoolgirl

lucky bugger!

what had two Rolls Royce R engines?

Whirlwind or Manchester? Didnt the R become the Vulture?

Or is it the dunces corner again for me?

NO I WAS WRONG.........

this time I tried Wiki

George Eyston built a car with two R's in it, Thunderbolt

and blimey o'reilly they were the two Supermarine S6B engines relocated one even won the Schneider Trophy

Thanks for making me look that up Steve

new things every day

yep, usual ball sh*t from you, nothing changed there, hows the fake car...

Aside from two sticks in tandem, and the Dak had two side by side, so I don't imagine it's that, do you mean the non-period shiny black finish?

MG Mark

I must look up the serials of  the BBMF Chippys, to see if either of them is in my ATC cadet logbook.

I wish I'd logged the ones I flew in as a Civilian Instructor in later years

I thnk Mark will be right about the colour scheme

come on Peter spill'em



bill

did a google search for Miss England II and came up with this   (http://www.conceptualist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/miss-england-2.gif)

not sure if that is right  ::)

but could be this one

Miss England II was built for Lord Wakefield in 1930, who had obtained a pair of the powerful new Rolls-Royce type R V-12 engines. Miss England II which was was 38 feet long with a beam of nine feet. She had been designed by Fred Cooper.

Speed:      98.76 mph (85.82 kn; 158.94 km/h), Sir Henry Segrave, 13 June 1930, Windermere
                110.28 mph (95.83 kn; 177.48 km/h), Kaye Don, 9 July 1931, Lake Garda




(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Miss_England_II_%28model%29.jpg/800px-Miss_England_II_%28model%29.jpg)

Well done Neil, 2 boats makes the set (Rup got the car)

So -

George Eyston - Thunderbolt LSR car
Henry Segrave - Miss England II WSR boat
Kaye Don - Miss England III WSR boat

all had 2 Rolls Royce 'R' engines

Bovril
Morning, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader
What-ho, Squiffy.
Bovril
How was it?
Squadron Leader
Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril
Er, I'm afraid I don't quite follow you, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader
It's perfectly ordinary banter, Squiffy. Bally Jerry ... pranged his kite right in the how's yer father ... hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril No, I'm just not understanding banter at all well today. Give us it slower.
Squadron Leader
Banter's not the same if you say it slower, Squiffy.
Bovril
Hold on, then. (shouts) Wingco!
Wingco
Yes!
Bovril
Bend an ear to the squadron leader's banter for a sec, would you?
Wingco
Can do.
Bovril
Jolly good.
Wingco
Fire away.
Squadron Leader
(draws a deep breath and looks slightly uncertain, then starts even more deliberately then before) Bally Jerry ... pranged his kite ... right in the how's your father ... hairy blighter ... dicky-birdied ... ... feathered back on his Sammy ... took a waspy ... flipped over on his Betty Harper's ... and caught his can in the Bertie.
Wingco
... No, don't understand that banter at all.
Squadron Leader
Something up with my banter, chaps?
A siren goes. The door bursts open and an out-of-breath young pilot rushes in in his flying gear.

Pilot (Michael)
Bunch of monkeys on your ceiling, sir! Grab your egg and fours and let's get the bacon delivered.
General incomprehension. They look at each other

Wingco
Do you understand that?
Squadron Leader
No, didn't get a word of it.
Wingco
Sorry old man, we don't understand your banter.
Pilot
You know ... bally ten-penny ones dropping in the custard ... (searching for the words) um ... Charlie Choppers chucking a handful ...
Wingco
No, no ... sorry.
Bovril
Say it a bit slower, old chap.
Pilot
Slower banter, sir?
Wingco
Ra-ther!
Pilot
Um ... sausage squad up the blue end!
Squadron Leader
No, still don't get it.
Pilot
Um ... cabbage crates coming over the briny?
Squadron Leader
No.
Wingco, Pilot and Bovril
No, no ...
Stock film of a German bombing raid.

Voice Over
But by then it was too late. The first cabbage crates hit London by July 7th. That was just the beginning...

H,

Excellent period banter old chap, but I'm sorry it's just not with post-Merlin (the helicopter, not R-R engine) days you know..... I mean, it's a bit like looking bamboozled over "look mate, we routed a quick one through Architect via mike charlie 6, pulled wool over the cloggy tube monkeys, fired up the cans so homebound like greased weasal sh*t across the puddle and stopped the Erics pulling a Fox 2 by spanking the firewall and firing off random rounds.  Parcels in the oggin went for a ball of chalk off the plot at 12 o'clock but delivery would have created instant sunrise anyway, so we scraped the cab onto the tarmac to hit the Mess for tea, toast and medals".  

Which roughly translated might mean that "we got airborne from Germany and the US controller routed us immediately over an accepted turning point over the North Sea (designated MC6) albeit without the permission of Dutch ATC, to return to the UK.  An attempted GDR intercept was foiled by engaging full reheat and firing chaff and flares.  Although the training drop on the Wash ranges was completely unplottable by the range controllers, the nature of the weapons simulated would have made no difference to the effect.  We landed the jets safely and made Happy Hour in the Mess.....

And we think we have problems translating between languages..... ;)

MG Mark

Bill,

Not quite, the potential of the R racing engine for the Scheider Trophy planes was developed into the Merlin, in line with R-R's naming of aero engines after birds of prey, and was supplanted in time by the Griffon.  But, in keeping with those times of rapid technological development many things happened in parallel so, while developing the R into the Merlin, the Peregrine was their ultimate development of the pre-war Kestrel engine, via the Goshawk, and the Vulture was a pair of Peregrines coupled together into an X-24 cylinder configuration with a common cranckcase, but it was unreliable, so development of the Merlin won the day because of power, weight and development potential.  But then the R engine came from the Buzzard, designed by R-R and built in the late 20s, also referred to as the "H" engine, which was then developed into the "R" by scaling-up the Kestrel.  The Kestrel came about because of the Curtiss D-12, one of the first aero engines made with a cast block rather than with individual cylinder pots bolted to a separate crankcase, so it was simpler to manufacture as well being lighter and stronger.  The D-12 was one of the most powerful engines then and no British company could offer anything comparable; when Fairey imported them, the Air Ministry ordered Napier and Rolls-Royce to start work on cast block engines.  Napier's chief engineer had developed the Napier Lion to its potential, wasn't allowed to go further, so deserted to R-R and designed the new engine to use supercharging at all altitudes, enabling a quantum leap forward in performance.  

The common factor in all the R-R "birds" engines is that they were all V-12, cast block, pressurised liquid-cooled, internal combustion, piston powered, engines, whatever they ended up being used in....and if all of that is not clear, just think birds of prey.... oh and add the ironic twists that Willy Messerschmitt tested the first ME Bf 109 V1 prototype fitted with a R-R Kestrel engine in 1935, because the German designed DB engines intended for it were not ready. And that the Reich Air Ministry had acquired 4 Kestrel engines by trading a Heinkel He 70 Blitz (the civilian mail plane predecessor to the He-111 bomber) for Rolls Royce to use as as an engine test-bed for the Kestrel....

MG Mark

Yes when I cheated using Wiki I followed all the relevant streams, why d'you think I replied so late after the initial Miss England had been unmasked   :D

I got carried away 'cos the thirties were a magnificent time for piston engine development

scary really when Frank Whittle was already working on gas turbines


bill

Indeed, and although it takes us a way from the thread title, it of course led you to the likes of this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AJcdtGh8fA&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AJcdtGh8fA&feature=related)

MG Mark